My dialogue with a Muslim the past few days on Messenger... (3/3/25)
Muslim:
I'm Muslim myself and I always wondered why some Christian's go learn about Islam from people who aren't Muslims. I'm not saying you did the same, but maybe you still had some concerns I may be able to answer for you?
Me:
I have gone and heard from a former Muslim. His name is Daniel Shayesteh.
Obviously, Islam and Christianity cannot both be true. Islam says that Jesus is the Christ, but they do not believe he is the Son of God. But the Christ is the Son of God. It is an essential truth of Christianity.
Jesus also died for our sins as the satisfaction of Divine justice, so God can be just in justifying us. This also Islam rejects, but it is an essential truth of Christianity. Jesus both died for our sins and rose again from the Grave. His resurrection is essential truth of Christianity.
Muslim:
That's correct, Islam and Christianity cannot both be true.
From a quick search about Daniel, it looks like he followed a sect of Islam that is Shiism, considering his background his involvement with the Iranian revolution. That sect is less than 8% of all Muslims.
In pursuant of truth, going directly to the source, by reading the Quran, asking learned Muslims, clerics, scholars, etc. is a critical part of due diligence.
Our belief is Jesus was perceived to be killed but he was not. God saved him, ascended him to heaven, and will return to slay the Dajjal (anti-Christ) near the end of times.
We believe he was born of a virgin birth. We love and revere Mary, there's even a whole chapter dedicated to her in the Quran.
At the root, Islam isn't just rejecting the claims you've mentioned. It affirms that the gospel was sent down to Jesus but it was the rabbis, priests, leaders who changed the words of God for their own worldly gain.
Jesus never claimed divinity. Even in the Bible Jesus was praying to the father. Crucifying an innocent man isn't divine justice because we wouldn't accept an innocent man being put to death today for the sins of his family.
Me:
The reason Jesus was born of a virgin was because he preexisted and is Divine. He was without sin, so He was qualified to bear the sin of man.
Doesn't the Quran say someone who is burdened cannot bear the burden of another? Only Jesus was without sin.
But doesn't the Hadiths say Jews and Christians will bear the sins of Muslims who have sinned?
It is the historical view of the Church for 2000 years that Jesus is the Son of God, and that he died for our sins on the cross and rose again, that God justifies those who believe in Jesus. Islam rejects this, and therefore, is in opposition to Christianity. Like Islam, Christianity has sects, and not everything that has developed is true in those sects.
Muslim:
The Quranic verse that states "no one will carry the sins of another" is found in Surah Al-An'am (The Cattle), verse 164, which reads: "Say, 'Should I seek a lord other than Allah while He is the Lord of everything?' No one will reap except what they sow. No soul burdened with sin will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you of your differences."
Since being born of a virgin is a precursor to divinity in your point of view, then that makes Adam more worthy of divinity because he had no father or mother.
The Hadith you’re speaking of is classified as inauthentic by many scholars. If there is any Hadith that contradicts the Quran, it’s rejected and classified as inauthentic.
Me:
Adam was created from the dust of the earth, and Eve from his rib/ side. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in a woman. He preexisted his conception. Jesus was not a created being prior to his incarnation (coming in the flesh).
Muslim:
How is killing an innocent man and giving a sinless man everyone’s sins justice?
Me:
The penalty of sin is death. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. Jesus bore the wages of sin. It is taught from the beginning of time. It is seen in the animal sacrifices from the beginning.
Leviticus 17:11: “For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.’”
Penal substitution is clearly taught from the beginning. You can deny it if you want, but there is no question that it is taught.
Even Islam recognizes that Jesus was born of a virgin without sin.
He came for this purpose: to bear our sins to bring us to God. It is the message of the Old and New Testament, that is, the Hebrew and the Gospels and Christian Scriptures.
It is essential doctrine of Christianity, that the Christ, the son of God, became human, to bear our sins in death, rise again, and he’s coming again to judge the world and reign over the earth. To him every knee shall bow, and tongue confess that he is Lord.
Muslim:
“Islam recognizes that every baby is born sinless, whether that be baby Jesus or a little baby born today. There’s no concept of original sin in Islam. Question. Do you believe Jesus is God or the son of god?”
Me:
There is that view among Christians that every baby is born sinless. Those who take that view reject the concept of original sin.
There is a view that I take that does not hold to original sin, but that the inclination towards evil was inherited from Adam. When Adam sinned, the inclination towards evil developed in him, and it has been passed on to his progeny/ descendants.
Original sin says that everyone is guilty for Adam's sin, but the view I take is that we inherited the inclination towards evil, not the guilt.
The virgin birth of Jesus kept him from inheriting that inclination towards evil, because he was conceived by the Holy Spirit, and not by the common union of human father and mother.
The inclination to do evil is evident in that the failure rate is 100%--”for all have sinned.” Scripture says because of Adam, “all have sinned.”
Yet Jesus did not sin. Even Islam attests to this.
We are told in Genesis, after the flood, “I will never again curse the ground because of humankind, even though *the inclination of their minds is evil from childhood on*.” Genesis 8:21
We also read in the writings of Apostle Paul concerning believers in Christ: “...all of us also formerly lived out our lives in the cravings of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and the mind, and *were by nature children of wrath* even as the rest.” Ephesians 2:3
And in Paul's letter to the Church in Rome: “12 Therefore, just as through one man [Adam] [the]sin entered the world, and death through [the] sin, and thus [spiritual] death spread to all men, because [of which] all sinned.” Romans 5:12
Again, to the Romans: “21 I find then a law [principle], that *evil is present with me,* the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But *I see another law [principle] in my members, warring against the law of my mind,* and bringing me into captivity to *the law of sin which is in my members.* 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! Romans 7:21-25
This inclination to evil (the “law” or principle of sin) exists in us all from conception—except Jesus, who lived without committing sin.
The “Christ” is the Son of God. I believe this.
“Christ” is just the Greek word for the Hebrew word that means “anointed.” The Hebrew word in English is “Messiah.”
The Messiah/ Christ is the Son of God. This is in the Old Testament, and it was understood by the Hebrews and Jews.
Psalm 2 says: “1 Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying, 3 "Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us." 4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision. 5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure: 6 "Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion." 7 "I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. 8 Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession. 9 You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.'" Psalms 2:1-9
When Jesus asked the disciple/ Apostle Peter who he was, we read: “16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Matthew 16:16
When Jesus was on trial before the chief priests, the elders, he scribes, and the High Priest, we read that: “...the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" 62 Jesus said, "I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven." 63 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "What further need do we have of witnesses? 64 You have heard the blasphemy! What do you think?" And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death.” Mark 14:61-64
The Son of God is God. He has the same divine attributes as the Father and Holy Spirit.
He has all authority over creation, and he is heir of all things. Every knee shall bow to Him.
The book to the Hebrews says: “when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him." 7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire." 8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions." Hebrews 1:6-9
The Gospel of John says: “1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. … 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:1-2, 14
The “only begotten” speaks of him as the heir of all things.
Keep in mind that person-hood and God are not the same categories. Person-hood speaks of individuality/ identity, while “God” speaks of Divine attributes. There is One God, but 3 persons: three Persons that have the same divine attributes that are shared with no other being.
